tesla Where to actually see range in a Tesla
With all the recent attention Tesla has received regarding their range and ensuing discussions, it’s apparent there’s a lack of awareness regarding how range is displayed in a Tesla, and quite a lot of misinformation around what range information is provided in a Tesla. So I wanted to try and share some information on this topic.
The battery icon at the top of the central screen provides the car’s state of charge; Tesla allows drivers to toggle (by touching the battery icon) between displaying state of charge as either a percentage or miles. This is similar to the battery icon on a laptop, which can display the battery charge remaining either as a percentage or time. This icon in a Tesla is akin to the fuel gauge in an ICE car; it not the car’s trip range information.
As is accessed in typical ICE cars, the range information is contained within the car’s trip information section; this is similar for Teslas. To access this information, users must go to the Energy App, and then tap the Consumption tab. This provides the car’s instant or average range, as selected by the driver, based on the last 5,15, or 30 miles driven.
Happy to answer questions people might have about this topic in an effort to help increase awareness of how range in Teslas really operates.
I thought people were complaining about the advertised range of Tesla cars, not that they can’t find a real time estimation of the range.
That is what they were complaining about. The difference between advertised range and real-world range is greater in most models of Tesla than it is for most other EV manufacturers by a fair margin.
So the Tesla fanboys are here to mansplain things away?! I found my Leaf inflated their range, 60kwh with an average 4mpk, at most can get 240 at 100%, but on highways driving over 70, it can’t achieve that. But my MachE underestimates the range by using 3mpk as its base.
I've been following the story from different outlets covering this. The allegation is that Tesla is displaying range greater than it actually is through software to make people feel good while driving. The software is design to show the real range when battery is running low.
Providing inaccurate real time data to drivers through software is different than exaggerated range in advertisements if I am reading this correctly.
This was what I was referring to - https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a33824052/adjustment-factor-tesla-uses-for-big-epa-range-numbers/
Not just the GOM, Tesla has a history of taking steps to inflate EPA range, which leads to their vehicles having some of the greatest gap between actual range and EPA range among EV manufacturers.
I just bought a used model s, 90D so estimated 294 mile EPA range. Going 80 mph I get like 180-200 miles of range if I were to go from literally 100% charge to 1%, this is in 50-60° weather. If I drop my speed to 60 mph then I get 230-250 miles of range. My car has 110k miles on it. The number one thing that affects the range is how you drive the vehicle. Literally ANY vehicle that goes faster progressively loses range, including ICE vehicles. That’s just physics. Yes this does suck for cross country trips, but realistically how often do you do that?
There are two separate issues. The car has no issue delivering its range; that some people have poor driving habits regarding efficiency isn’t the fault of a car.
So don’t advertise some perfect conditions, that’s what the law suit about
Better yet, enter your destination in the navigation system, and instead of guessing your range based on your previous consumption, it'll give you an accurate prediction of what percent state of charge you'll arrive at your destination with, taking into account elevation changes, wind, speed limits, etc.
Yep, this is all true.
This was more for all the comments that the range is Teslas doesn’t adjust for one’s driving.
Oddly, from what I've read and seen in reviews (don't own one), Polestar's range is reported to be best predicted by Android Automotive's navigation, too.
People just want to complain and act like Tesla lied. As if other OEM's don't show the EPA range as the estimate range of the vehicle at current fuel levels.
I think a lot of other cars use a gom. There are tradeoffs there too, of course.
all other than Tesla
I thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure. it'd be interesting to see an analysis on how they each work.
From what I have seen, the default approach is to calculate range based on recent usage. That was also the case for the ICE cars that I had - at least in Europe.
As if other OEM's don't show the EPA range as the estimate range of the vehicle at current fuel levels.
Actually, they don’t. But that is their problem. Tesla shouldn’t mimic their behaviour.
If Tesla caves in and change the range indication to a GOM as used in other cars, I will switch to % immediately.
GOM is entirely unusable information, unless you positively know how your planned trip today relates to the trip the car took yesterday.
With Teslas indication, I only need to know how my planned trip today relates to standard driving conditions. Much more reliable. If I drive in motorway in the summer, I will use 100 EPA km for every 70-80 km. If I drive on country roads in the summer, I will use 100 EPA km for every 110-130 km. If I drive in the winter, rain or a strong headwind, I will have to subtract 10-20% from those numbers.
I can trust this information every time I get into the car. If the display shows that I have 200 km left, I immediately know how many km I can drive, depending on the adjustments I just mentioned.
If I get in to a car with GOM, and the display shows 200 km, I have no idea how far I will be able to go, unless I know how the car was driven yesterday. It is incredible that so many people prefer such random information.
I think part of it is that Teslas significantly underperform EPA range in real world tests, where some other manufacturers are closer to EPA. Not sure why that is.
But the solution is ... just set it to percentage. Don't obsess over range.
A vocal minority dislikes Tesla and they’re not really sure why. I think an oil investor has convinced them that Musk is bad because reasons. I can only assume that they’ve research CEOs of all major car manufacturers.
It's the Stans sucking all the oxygen out of online discourse.
I’ve seen hate for the sake of hate against valid points; at what point is the anti-Stan worse than the Stan?
That's funny, a CNBC report about EPA's Ann Arbor lab came up in my Youtube feed today.
Tesla shouldn't be advertising other than EPA numbers. In my experience EPA numbers are achievable but are't because most people are lead-footed. I once got a 90s compliance car econobox and for some reason I thought the EPA numbers were 38/54. So for years I was able to get to 50 MPG by making an effort, and thought "well ok typical, nobody can hit EPA." Then I actually looked up the EPA numbers and they were 31/39. Durrr!
So yeah, we don't hit EPA numbers because it's fun not to. But we can bust them easily.
Agree and no one complains that there has car should get 32 miles on the highway but only gets 28 right?
Agreed, Volvo XC40 found was just as far off the EPA range. Just put on a chill track, engage chill mode, lean back and relax. I usually beat the projected range on my MY LR by about 1.3% . This is in Vancouver with 5-10 deg C outside and stock Kumho Majety 9 tires. in Mixed cycle I get about 440-455km (not the 497 EPA but still great). If I'm hauling on the freeway it's more like 390km, which I still think is fine compared to most other EVs with similar pack size.
I made a similar post to this in a Tesla group earlier today. I completely agree and am constantly telling people to look there.
Set it to percentage on the main screen and forget it. If you need a range estimate look where you suggested or enter your destination into the nav for pretty accurate battery estimates.
Yea I almost never look at the "immediate" range in the app or in the car, I only ever look at the estimate when putting in a destination because that is dead on every time within 1-2%. Everything else I just leave it as a percentage.
You trust the number the vehicle is giving and not the EPA range Tesla gives. The EPA range is with all ideal conditions where they probably go from 100% to 0% and almost no one will be driving in ideal conditions or without A/C. The vehicle will do all the calculations as it's taking into account all the energy consumption from speed, AC use, elevation, etc... EVs are very exceptional to range because it has more factors than in ICE vehicles.
EPA range is not supposed to be all ideal, but a real world driving range.
Exactly. 60% highway, 40% city, and no more than 60 mph, with the AC on, at a 20°C exterior temperature.
Once you know this it's quite easy to understand why you're meeting the EPA range or not.
I have no problem exceeding the EPA if the conditions are more favorable than what is tested for it.
It's mostly a problem for people who drive way above 60mph for whatever reason.
I have no challenge reaching the EPA range in our cars in the no winter months. My trip range exceeds the EPA range.
So your saying it displays a range in miles that isn’t accurate and you should go 5 menus deep to find the really real range.
Sounds like exactly what the law suit is saying.
But that is not the really real range. That is the range you will get, only if you drive like yesterday. If you switch a lot between country roads and motorway, the “really real” range is an unusable, moving target.
The battery indicator shows how much is left on the battery, conveniently normalised so you can use it across cars with different battery size and EPA consumption. I know that I will huse 100 EPA km for every 70-80 motorway km. I can use that number in any Tesla, because all the battery meters use the same normalization.
Trying to convince people there's literally nothing in a Tesla "5 menus deep" should be tomorrow's thread. The energy app is two taps away at all times. (One if pinned) It works like an app drawer on your phone and cannot be overlayed or hidden for any reason.
If you leave it on percentage, it tells you how much of your charge/fuel remains -- exactly the way fuel meters have worked for decades in ICE cars.
My old minivan could give me a range estimate, but it was never super accurate. It would show 480 miles when I was cruising downhill and then flip to 320 a few minutes later when I got to a long enough uphill. Very often, it would show a range higher than the number of miles I needed to travel, but then not actually have enough to get me there. It's really difficult for a car to estimate range when it depends on so many variables (route, traffic, driving surface, tire inflation, speed, driver's use of acceleration/braking, etc.).
(On the minivan, to get to the range information, I needed to click a steering wheel button four or five times to get past warning messages, trip information, etc.)
Interesting take. The number shown in miles where the battery icon is indicates the distance that the car can travel, if that’s how a driver chooses to set the battery icon, the car’s range based on how it is being driven, which is a separate thing, is shown in the trip consumption section. In everything single car a driver has to access a menu(s) to get the car’s trip range; pretending this is something new is silly.
You're reaching.
The energy app is literally one tap away (if the app is pinned at the bottom) or two taps away max. You can even open it with a voice command.
It's really not a problem.
The fact this is so confusing (coming from a two Tesla owner for the last 4 years) is why this needs to be fixed. The range with the battery should equal what the navigation shows at any given time. Meaning, they use the same solution to define range remaining.
I completely disagree. I want 200 km displayed range to represent the same available battery kWh every day. If they start using variable fudge factors, the number is unusable. Then it is not a battery indication anymore.
Sounds Iike you want a percentage rather than an estimated distance.
No. Percentage will mean something different as the battery degrades. Percentage will mean something else in another Tesla model.
Showing remaining kWh, normalized with rated consumption, is a rather perfect way. Better than percent. And much, much better than randomly adjusting for recent trips.
They probably should just get rid of the range estimate on the dash and only do %. Show range only in the navigation/consumption area where it’s more accurate.
The way it currently works,the state of the range based on an EPA estimation, it’s never accurate. Why would you want that?
it’s never accurate.
the real answer is to fix the fucking epa range, not to screw with numbers to pollute it with fake useless accuracy
Because it is reliable. I can trust the number being reliable enough to be a basis for my own correction.
A GOM display entirely lacks this reliability. 200 km will represent an entirely different battery charge, depending on whether I drove on motorway yesterday or I drove on country roads yesterday.
Did your non-EV car provide miles remaining?
Do you think that is based on % of gas tank left?
No it didn’t. It based itself off of your current avg mpg and the number of gallons remaining.
That’s literally what Tesla should be doing. Basing itself off of the kWh/mile and the remaining kWh of the battery. It doesn’t need to be based off the last 30 miles in the energy app. It can be off of a larger average which is what other cars utilize. This way when you see 200 miles remaining, you know that it is almost exactly that many miles of range remaining just like how accurate the navigation is.
My non-EV provided km remaining, yes. That number was unusable, for the reasons I have mentioned. I do not want that transferred to my EV.
Ok well our experiences are very different. I’ve had several cars that display remaining miles and they were very accurate. Tesla navigation using the same solution is also very accurate. I just want that on the main display.
Tesla navigation does not use the same solution.
Tesla navigation does something entirely different: It looks at the route you are actually going to drive today. Not the route you drove yesterday.
The battery meter can’t do that. It doesn’t know which route you are going to drive today, before you select a route. And after you select the route, having this information at the battery meter would be redundant, since the navigation is already diplaying the information.
Tesla navigation uses your recent driving efficiency plus the conditions and distance of where your going. You can see this if you drive deliberately inefficient.
It sounds like you want the state of charge to be able to display the kWh remaining, adjusting for degradation.
I completely agree.
As I tried outlining, the battery icon only indicates the batteries SOC. Remaining range goes up and down as one drives, in any car, which is why it has its own dedicated space in every car. The mistake here is that many people don’t understand this.
I agree with how you are describing the current user experience. My point is that this is stupid when showing remaining range. It only makes sense when showing battery percentage.
You don’t setup a user experience that is opposite of what people expect.
The challenge is that many people who are new to EVs would likely be even more confused if they just saw a percentage for SOC. In a regular ICE car, the majority of people don’t have their range visible at able, they simply rely on their fuel gauge to know when to fill up. With EVs many people lack the familiarity to know what to expect from a percentage number, which is why having a mile number is helpful for some. However, the challenge that in turn creates is many people misunderstanding what that number means. Not an easy solution. Curious how other EVs approach displaying SOC and trip range.
Any other car when showing a range, that range is based on the current driving efficiency. For Tesla by using the same logic for battery percentage as well as range, they are actually making it confusing for people. Any other car has a fuel gauge which is equivalent to the battery percentage. Then they show range remaining, which is based on efficiency of driving. Tesla should follow the examples set by other cars for decades now.
So your proposed solution is that they just show percentage for SOC, so it exactly replicates the fuel gauge in an ICE car?
The thing with trip range is that it is volatile, given it’s based on driving efficiency, and can increase; this doesn’t make sense to have display like this for SOC.
That’s how cars work right now. The fuel gauge is no different than battery percentage. Then the miles remaining is based off your driving efficiency. My solution is to have Tesla work like every other vehicle out there. This way, it is no longer confusing to drivers.
Only showing a percentage is a good idea. Showing a different calculation in place of the fuel gauge (percentage) is not. It will only compound complaints so long as the EPA number exists.
not any other car, would you people stop saying this
Any other car that displays remaining miles. Obviously there are cars that only have a gas gauge.
But you assume they calculate by driving habit when they don’t…
The cars I’ve owned all have used driving efficiency or avg mpg.
That’s not completely true, plenty just spit out the EPA estimate based on a rough measure of how much fuel has used.
My Fusion, Explorer and Sequoia all were amazingly accurate.
My wife’s old xB, not so much 😅
no, the issue is that refueling an ice car is a two-minute ordeal and fuel is available everywhere, so there is almost never any planning required
It takes two means to stop, pay, and fill the tank? How small is your tank? Never any planning? The number of times I hear people say “I need to stop and get gas” is hardly infrequent, and definitely sounds like planning; it’s something they need to go out of their way to do. Don’t even get me started on filling up at places like Costco.
ya lol filling up a 13-gallon tank takes no time at all. strange that you’ve never experienced this.
just imagine if those mythical people you’re mentioning said “I have to stop and charge” instead
not any car
What cars with a trip range does this not apply to?
polestar 2
It displays trip range by default?
trip range?
Yes, the range of your trip.
what is “the range of my trip”?
by default, polestar 2 shows range as (EPA range) x (battery percentage). until literally the most recent software update, it there was no option to show any other estimate.
There should be a section somewhere in the car’s menu that provides trip data each time you’re driving, like every other car. In regular ICE cars it was typically referred to as the trip computer, or similar. In this section, it tells you your projected range based on how you’ve been driving on that given trip you’re on. This is not the range you’re describing as seeing in your Polestar. This is the entire issue being discussed. What you’re seeing in your car is the state of charge, expressed in miles rather than a percentage, and is not the actual projected range the car is calculating, which is found in whatever menu location Polestar uses, which for Tesla is the Consumption tab in the Energy App.
In your own car, battery percentage is eminently usable. You know your own car and your own driving habits and can derive a real-world range estimate yourself. Battery degradation is extremely slow and can easily be compensated for.
Use the trip planner in the app, set it to a destination that's roughly 300 miles away and see if you need to supercharge or not along the way.
I would like to throw my opinion in the form of a theory. I remember in my gas car, it had a dial that told how much gas was left. Newer cars even had some digital rang left till empty... but I know when it would get down to close to empty, the rated range would drop like a stone. But i was already headed to get gas, so it's not an issue right. Now, ev's are all digital, and they know that if you are driving fats, you are consuming energy fast, and you will run out to empty faster. They recalculate more in real time with line graph so you can clearly see that it's going down. It's the same principle of watching the clock time moves slow. With respect to tesla, I have m3 rwd and love it. I keep it on %, and when driving, I use the navigation, and it is very accurate, much more than the "rated EPA guess o meter" sry TLDR right lol
My RWD's range on full charge is 270. Since my last full charge I've driven 108 miles and the display shows I have 141 miles of range remaining. I don't think that's bad.
I've used: 110 miles worth of charge on driving 3.4 miles screen time 1 mile on preconditioning (it's been HOT) 9.7 miles on sentry (I have free charging at work so I don't care much about range and electric expense) 2.2 miles on the mobile app 2.7 miles on vehicle standby
210 Wh/mi
It costs money, but Tessie does this. It gives your “range” and then your real-life range based on whatever historical timeframe you choose to base estimates.