How can I check the health of the battery? When looking to buy used.
How can I check the health of the battery? When looking to buy used.
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How can I check the health of the battery? When looking to buy used.
I would not buy a 2013 Model S, period. The cars have just improved so much since then that it’s not even worth considering. I would exercise extreme caution with this. If you’re not near a service center that can evaluate the battery and general health of the vehicle, I’d steer far, far away from this.
If you’re considering this one because you can’t afford a more expensive one, you may need consider that you simply can’t afford an EV at this point in time.
Tesla makes amazing cars, and at the time of release, this car was top-of-the-line in the EV space, but the earlier models haven’t aged well in my opinion.
I really don’t mean to be a downer, but I wouldn’t want you to have buyer’s remorse on such a huge purchase.
This.
No autopilot. Very iffy battery health (180 Of 220 is one of the worst degradations I’ve seen) And just generally 8 years of wear and tear.
Not a good buy. Buy a Model 3 SR.
Money has never been cheaper. If you can swing the loan payment, get a new M3 SR+.
Money has never been cheaper, but cars have never been more expensive. Don’t buy a car right now unless you absolutely need to. The market is batshit crazy.
Also accurate.
money has never been cheaper
This is true, and as someone that graduated in 2008, it terrifies me.
This guy writes the local news promos.
Something in your house may kill you, tune in tomorrow at 11 to action 7 news
This guy writes the local news promos.
Something in your house may kill you, tune in tomorrow at 11 to action 7 news
Am I in trouble? I have 114 shares at an avg cost of 69$ that I plan on holding til 2030. You’re telling me to sell?
Am I in trouble? I have 114 shares at an avg cost of 69$ that I plan on holding til 2030. You’re telling me to sell?
Well you’re insinuating an extremely bearish outcome based on nothing other than “it’s coming, and there’s reasons for it coming but I’m going to be vague and just say it’s coming”.
If you’re just going off feelings please just say that. If you know specifics please share.
You’re an adult, cmon now.
Well you’re insinuating an extremely bearish outcome based on nothing other than “it’s coming, and there’s reasons for it coming but I’m going to be vague and just say it’s coming”.
If you’re just going off feelings please just say that. If you know specifics please share.
You’re an adult, cmon now.
Lmao it’s not yet we’ve got the roaring 20s to go
Easy to get debt, hard to pay off
If you’re considering this one because you can’t afford a more expensive one, you may need consider that you simply can’t afford an EV at this point in time.
I mostly agree with what you said, but I don’t think this is true. One can find some absolutely killer deals on, say, a new Kona / Niro EV or a Bolt which come with generous warranties and way more range than is available in this Model S.
Our loaded leftover ‘20 Kona EV was a good $10k cheaper OTD than a 3 SR+ and comes with features like cooled seats which aren’t available in the Model 3. And honestly I’m pretty damn impressed at how well executed the car is. Sure it doesn’t charge anywhere near as fast (tops I’ve seen is 77 kW), and the tech-y things aren’t on par with Tesla (BlueLink….works, but I won’t say anything nicer than that) but a great commuter option nonetheless.
Very fair point. To be more exact, I should have said Tesla specifically rather than EVs in general.
Oh, Kona/Niro can finally surpass 50 kW?! This suddenly makes this car a lot more appealing to me. I agree, at this price point, a 40 kWh Niro is a better choice, even if the range is significantly lower.
Yeah idk where you live, but mine is the 64kWh model so 200+ miles is totally achievable without running the battery down too far or max-charging it.
I have a L2 home charger and a backup ICE vehicle so charging speeds are largely meaningless to me. But the few times we’ve had to it took about 45 min to juice it from 20% or so to 80%. I wouldn’t call that criminally terrible but absolutely a turnoff if you need fast charging regularly.
Yup in addition to what the others mentioned about autopilot this car has mcu 1 which is slow as hell on the later software versions . It’s likely under recall but that doesn’t upgrade it and only replaces the emmc. The terrible original design seats that Elon said sitting on bricks would be better, Probably not air suspension and I’m sure a decent amount of battery degradation. I’d stay far away from this.
Yup in addition to what the others mentioned about autopilot this car has mcu 1 which is slow as hell on the later software versions . It’s likely under recall but that doesn’t upgrade it and only replaces the emmc. The terrible original design seats that Elon said sitting on bricks would be better, Probably not air suspension and I’m sure a decent amount of battery degradation. I’d stay far away from this.
I agree with the seats. But come on - to upgrade to MCU 2, you have to go all the way to 2018. That's a bit of a different budget!
you can upgrade to mcu 2 for $1500 on anything October 2016 or newer here is a 2016 70d for the price of a camry with less miles that would be much more enjoyable to own at this point.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/6aeb52a7-dba0-483f-9739-4585fdb0d99c/
Are you saying that new models will age better? Any particular reason?
Yes, there's a huge difference between 2012-14, 2015-17, 2018-2020, and 2021+.
12-14 were basically prototypes. I'm not taking about missing features like Autopilot, or those awful seats, I'm talking about them being absurdly unreliable, with engines failing, computers failing, a ton of minor electronics failing... Plus, the manufacturing process was still under development - they're much noisier inside, build quality issues often show up like the leaking panoramic roofs... They're problematic.
15-16 is what I'd call the Golden Age. Early Autopilot was introduced, seats were improved for 2015, and completely replaced by amazing Recaro made Next Generation Seats for 2016, a new manufacturing line fixed a lot of the quality issues, and the reliability skyrocketed (although front half-shafts just keep failing on AWD models...).
17-20 brought a lot of changes, some positive, some negative. Most obviously, the new looks. I personally prefer the older bumper, but it's subjective. Also, Full Autopilot arrived - even if the software wasn't ready yet. The new Media Computer Unit 2 enabled all the fun that Tesla is currently synonymous with. On the flip side, this was the end of free supercharging. Many optional extras, like the 7 seat configuration, or opening roof, were removed, along with all the fun colors. The new bumper made it nigh impossible to access the 12V battery when it failed. Oh, and the front half-shafts are still breaking, but now every model is an AWD model.
21+ we all know - Plaid acceleration, complete interior redesign with a horizontal screen, the rear bench is smaller, but instead has an armrest and a screen... And the front half-shafts supposedly were addressed, and redesigned to no longer break!
Uuuh, not sure why people downvoted and ignored this. I can’t tell you what OP really had in mind, but newer models supposedly have the computers and sensors that will be needed for full self driving once released, and there are a lot of quality of life things that have improved.
I actually just got to drive an old Model S P85D as a loaner, and honestly it felt bad compared to my M3. The stalks were clunky, the seat was uncomfortable, the sound system wasn’t great, the interior looked dated (opinion, of course), and it was uncomfortable to jam my hand between the stiff seat and the door to access the seat adjustment controls. Not a bad car, but I sure would rather have a M3 than an old MS, and mostly for reasons that won’t change. Could be things get that much better again over the next 8 years, but I’d say having comfy seats will age much better than not having them.
Okay... I mean, I said “supposedly.” I’m not claiming they’re right. That said, I don’t think any fundamentally new sensor technology is going to be needed for fully autonomous driving. It is definitely more of a software problem than a hardware one. Maybe a different configuration of sensors will be needed, but the hard part is definitely the interpretation of that sensor data.
Also, there is plenty of technology, including facial recognition, detection, and segmentation, object recognition, quality inspection tech used in manufacturing, even the image processing used by the phone you’re on now to generate 3D effects, that are all using technology that was developed 40 years ago. Sure the cameras have gotten better, but certainly there have been cameras around for 15 years that are fully capable of capturing plenty of data for these techniques - the main challenge is on the software side.
You say “the most bullish pro self driving position...is that it will be possible within a decade or less using technology yet to be developed.” I know plenty of more bullish positions than that. Not saying they’re right, but it’s definitely not the most optimistic opinion out there, unless you really mean “or less” literally, and you’re including people who claim it’ll be here in 2 years.
Also, it’s 8 cameras, but I don’t think the chipset is even as powerful as a PS5 in the Model 3/Y. That said, the Apollo 11 computer was about a thousand times less powerful than most phones today. Obviously this isn’t the same thing, and it is a far more complex problem to solve, but just because a system doesn’t impress anyone on r/pcmasterrace doesn’t mean it won’t be capable of some pretty amazing things.
Now let’s be clear, I hate empty promises, wild unrealistic claims, unethical and misleading marketing, and people who blindly follow one person or company and attack naysayers. Elon, Tesla, and some of their fans are CONSTANTLY guilty of this. That said, there are also plenty of counter-culture people that immediately resort to demeaning and condescending statements about “drinking cool-aid” the moment anyone says something even remotely optimistic about them, and I don’t think that’s a good way to behave either.
At the end of the day, do I think level 5 FSD will be released this year? No. 2 years? Probably not. 5-10 years? Could be. Could it work on current hardware? Maybe, maybe not. Could current hardware run the software necessary to take you from point A to point B with better-than-human accident rates without human intervention across 50% or more of the US, within the next 5 years? Of course it could. I’ve managed a team that worked on machine vision problems, and there are aspects of it that are harder AND easier than a lot of people think, but believe me when I say this is primarily a software issue.
Okay... I mean, I said “supposedly.” I’m not claiming they’re right. That said, I don’t think any fundamentally new sensor technology is going to be needed for fully autonomous driving. It is definitely more of a software problem than a hardware one. Maybe a different configuration of sensors will be needed, but the hard part is definitely the interpretation of that sensor data.
Also, there is plenty of technology, including facial recognition, detection, and segmentation, object recognition, quality inspection tech used in manufacturing, even the image processing used by the phone you’re on now to generate 3D effects, that are all using technology that was developed 40 years ago. Sure the cameras have gotten better, but certainly there have been cameras around for 15 years that are fully capable of capturing plenty of data for these techniques - the main challenge is on the software side.
You say “the most bullish pro self driving position...is that it will be possible within a decade or less using technology yet to be developed.” I know plenty of more bullish positions than that. Not saying they’re right, but it’s definitely not the most optimistic opinion out there, unless you really mean “or less” literally, and you’re including people who claim it’ll be here in 2 years.
Also, it’s 8 cameras, but I don’t think the chipset is even as powerful as a PS5 in the Model 3/Y. That said, the Apollo 11 computer was about a thousand times less powerful than most phones today. Obviously this isn’t the same thing, and it is a far more complex problem to solve, but just because a system doesn’t impress anyone on r/pcmasterrace doesn’t mean it won’t be capable of some pretty amazing things.
Now let’s be clear, I hate empty promises, wild unrealistic claims, unethical and misleading marketing, and people who blindly follow one person or company and attack naysayers. Elon, Tesla, and some of their fans are CONSTANTLY guilty of this. That said, there are also plenty of counter-culture people that immediately resort to demeaning and condescending statements about “drinking cool-aid” the moment anyone says something even remotely optimistic about them, and I don’t think that’s a good way to behave either.
At the end of the day, do I think level 5 FSD will be released this year? No. 2 years? Probably not. 5-10 years? Could be. Could it work on current hardware? Maybe, maybe not. Could current hardware run the software necessary to take you from point A to point B with better-than-human accident rates without human intervention across 50% or more of the US, within the next 5 years? Of course it could. I’ve managed a team that worked on machine vision problems, and there are aspects of it that are harder AND easier than a lot of people think, but believe me when I say this is primarily a software issue.
No way would I buy this.
Okay, thanks
I’ll say it: don’t buy this car
Okay. Thanks 👍
Many many 2013s had drive unit failure and replacement. ‘Twas a tough year for Tesla and probably not a good buy.
You'd want to find out what revision motor is in it. It's likely already been replaced if not replaced multiple times.
OP: Seller says it has 180 mile range out of the original 220 miles.
I drive 50 miles to work round trip 3 times a week. I'm comfortable with the S60 lower range.
You really can't do much more than that.
Besides, in a 2013 Model S, you'll have more to worry about than battery health.
The Model S originally debuted in 2012 with a limited run of "Signature" cars followed by regular production models. These early cars supercharged at 90 kw and did not have common features like parking sensors. The Media Control Unit (MCU1) was based on the nVidia Tegra architecture and can be upgraded at a Tesla service center. The 3G network connection can be upgraded to 4G LTE. Yes, in a 5G world, you're about to buy a car with 3G that may not be supported on your local AT&T towers. Get the LTE upgrade for $550 from Tesla.
Keep in mind that used cars are used cars. Though the EV powertrain requires little maintenance, moving parts still wear out, paint gets scuffed and interior components show wear and tear. Additionally, like any expensive vehicle, if the vehicle needs repair the parts and labor will still cost as much as they cost for a vehicle of that price range and age. This is why the famous "$40,000 used Bentley" is almost always a bad purchase.
Don’t forget the door handle motors that will need to be replaced!
Door handles are my new oil changes. Every 8k miles change your handles :)
To be fair they are likely all replaced by now and with upgraded parts.
Yeah, and look how far ev technology has come.
Yeah, and look how far ev technology has come.
Actually a great point. Wouldn't bat an eye at a 2013 BMW.
I bought a 5 year old, low mileage BMW once. It convinced me not to do that again.
Interested. Why not?
The electronics never worked right, transmission needed a repair, and had to replace the water pump... twice
I had a CPO that was a lease turn in, I kept it until the warranty ran out and sold it those things arent meant to last much longer than a 3 year lease.
The 60kWh cars only charged at about 75kW from memory. Oh how things move on...
If you’re ONLY using it to commute to work then it’s fine. If it’s your daily driver, that’s going to get old fast. Remember, the recommendation for battery preservation from Tesla is 80% max charge for daily use (non trip). So the 180 mile range is now 144. You also won’t get 144 in uneven terrain, high winds, or using HVAC, probably closer to 120 in average conditions. You’re going to want to keep yourself above 10% obviously to not risk stranding yourself, so knock another 18 miles off of that.
So now your realistic daily driving range is about 100 miles in between charges. At 80% on my LR 3 with depredation I get about 260 miles, and even that gets tricky for out of town trips. I feel like range anxiety won’t really be solved until Tesla develops about a 500 mile battery pack, which will still be under 400 miles after some degradation, 80% charge and environmental reduction.
I’ve got a 2013 P85, I don’t have much range loss at all, only 80k miles. I’d try to get a higher starting range and just one previous owner.
I love my P85 and won’t ever get a new car until this is done. It’s a dream to ride. I worked there long enough to be fully aware of the 3 and nothing would make me downgrade. Look for a used higher range lower miles one owner you’ll love it.
Reading this as an owner of a 2013 Nissan Leaf that gets 60 miles of range with 64% battery health is funny
60.0 miles is the height of 55595.0651 'Samsung Side by Side; Fingerprint Resistant Stainless Steel Refrigerators' stacked on top of each other
I might misunderstand what you’re saying. What’s funny? (It’s early I haven’t had coffee yet)
What's funny is all the folks on this thread acting as if "only" 180 miles of range is somehow a deal breaker, when some new EVs (entry level Nissan Leafs, for example) are still sold with only 150 mile range, and Leafs from 2013 came with 85 miles of range and most left from that era have degraded to 60-70 miles or less by now.
If you think 180 miles isn't enough range, spend an hour in a room with a bunch of Leaf owners! 😁
180 miles under ideal conditions probably
There’s something funky going on. The S60’s original rated range was 208 miles, not 220.
Why not get a more modern Bolt or something
u/HeIsTheDanger is right, if you are looking at this car because it is all you can afford, then I wouldn’t buy it.
It may be in the $20,000s, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is an $80,000 car that needs $80,000 car repairs. And it’s out of warranty.
More expensive cars have more expensive repairs.
I own a 2013 P85+ with 143,000 miles. I've test driven model 3's but they're just too big a step down. My car has 245 miles left in it, and my 80 mile daily round trip is fine even in -35° weather without over charging or getting dangerously low. I've had some repairs, but they haven't been as expensive as gas would've cost in a non-electric alternative. It looks like a good deal to me but put away some of that gas savings for repairs.
I would love to hear what you think is a step down. I’m not disagreeing, genuine question. My experience with an old P85D recently left me feeling pretty happy with my newer M3 in terms of ergonomics and style, but I only had a few hours with it, so I likely didn’t get the full picture.
I own both a P85 and Model 3. Honestly, the only thing that I like more about the 3 is the better screen and faster MCU. The MCU can be retrofitted though.
Having a heads up display, wider seat, great trunk space, and more comfortable air suspension makes me like the Model S more. Also, the Model S just flat out looks better. I've ordered a new Model S to replace my P85 and a Model Y to replace the 3. The 3 is a good car, but it's still a pretty big compromise in many ways over the Model S.
The S is bigger, more comfortable, rides amazingly well, and is just so elegant. I also have 3rd row seats in my S. I also really like the speedo in the center.
I can’t WAIT until all the Model 3 owners that act like any model S from 2017 or earlier is worth 0 dollars try to sell their cars in 2023 when some new 4680 based Ludicrous 3 with a yoke and a HUD or some other nonsense comes out and suddenly they’re the ones with old out of date worthless cars.
Seriously, things change in any electronic device or vehicle. Just because some newer cheaper thing is available, there is still value and a market for older premium things.
That S is probably a solid car. The battery may have degraded a lot, or it may not. It could be a that the owner kept it between 70-90% all the time and the BMS has simply drifted off. That’s the most likely scenario - there aren’t many batteries out there with a lot of degradation - you’re more likely to see one with an out and out failure. It also has unique styling that many people prefer over a 3, a good bit more utility, a more comfortable ride, and is easily upgraded to MCU2 for all the interior goodies if those are of value. Not everyone wants a new Civic just because it has a nicer stereo than a last-generation 5 series.
The caveat is that there certainly were some 60s that indeed did degrade like that. I looked into that Google doc back then when mine would only get like 170 miles and saw the pattern. When I had Jason Hughes swap a 90 pack in he said my pack had a bad shunt so a whole cluster was cut off basically. My logical conclusion is it must have been a common issue in that production time span. 90 packs also had issues with a sharp degradation curve before tapering off that made them no better than having an 85 in reality.
I just bought a 2014 Model S P85 and I have to say I love it. My advice is do your research. Look for a couple YouTube videos that instruct you on what to look for when buying a Model S. My drive unit was making a noise and I had it replaced under warranty. Odds are at this point your drive unit has already been replaced, this is something that the Tesla dealer can probably tell you. I can tell you from owning an i3 before , that low range cars are not terrible but you will have to keep an eye on your battery level and you will have a little higher range anxiety. Just make sure you have the 4G LTE upgrade, and to use your nav system to find Tesla superchargers. Also something to note early Model S's include free supercharging for life and free connectivity for life. All in all I'm very happy with my P85 but I did take me about 3 weeks to iron out all the issues. The only Bill I got from Tesla was for lug nuts.
That's worth $24,000?
I'll sell mine for that price.
2014 ~80k miles (can't check rn because it's in service mode on the app).
In service right now getting cracked windshield replaced, new hubs and bearings, and compressor for the air suspension.
MCU replaced last year which I just got refund check for under the new recall, which I believe might cover a subsequent failure since it's still MCU 1? At least that got a free upgrade from 3G to 4G connectivity.
Battery had significant degradation when I bought it but at ~56k it was replaced with a 90 pack with
Motor and battery swapped at Tesla Service Center or local shop ?
What city / state are you in ?
Battery + Motor swapped by Jason Hughes in NC.
That motor started milling. I bought one that is a revision K so much newer and less problems. Swapped in by Argonaut in Berkeley guided by u/Ingineerix (Phil).
Current location Minnesota.
Should note it was voluntary modification it's not a salvage. It can be serviced (it's at the Eden Prairie, MN service center right now), supercharging works, and has free unlimited supercharging.
Also brand new tires less than 100 miles. Has the 21" turbines, but I also have a set of 19" with studded nokian snow tires. Studs are illegal here and shops refuse to mount them (just learned the other week getting these new tires that they'll do it if I throw my California plate on as it's assume I'm passing through) so unused since 2019.
Ask for pics when charged to 100% of the mileage estimate
Consider a used Bolt I think. Will be a lot more reliable, modern, and an overall better experience.
if you're buying this thinking you are gonna save money, you'd better add a potential 20k+ for fixes and reevaulate.
Maybe ask for a photo of the battery at full charge. It will show the current max est. range
You could get a new Bolt for not much more. I'd love a Model S, but used prices are really high right now for all cars.
Boooooo!
It's a Tesla, not a Honda
I wish the model 3 would’ve had this color, but I would avoid this if I were you.
If you aren't worried about range, you can get a 2013 Nissan Leaf for cheaper than that.
You can buy a brand new 259 mile Chevrolet Bolt for $24K
Only $24k? Your first Tesla? Buy it (unless you are poor). But don't expect great range when trying to keep it between 20%-80% charge.
save the extra 10k or so and get a base model 3, will do wonders for you over this
How so?
Sits 7?
Yea, probably has the rear jumpseats. Horrible ventilation back there but fine for kids.
If it has the rear facing seats then yes.
As long as the interior is clean go for it! If it fits your needs a 2013 model S doesn’t come with autopilot and no adaptive cruise control. If you want more performance, and a newer car upgrade to a SR+ model 3
This company is working on a solution. https://www.recurrentauto.com/
I don't see anything there specific to the post's question.
IIRC, you have to drive it down to as close to zero as possible, let it sit for a while and then charge it back up to 100%.
I’d also take it to a body shop to check for any mechanical defects and general wear and tear.
These „early“ models all have their own quirks and bugs and weak points - ideally, you‘d want someone to look at it who knows them and haggle down the seller accordingly.
I wonder how much Tesla would pay for it as a trade-in….
I would lean away from this. There is so much tech NOT in this older model. I’ve not heard good things about a Tesla sharing vehicle histories. This would be a hard pass for me.
I would try to get a p85 for roughly the same price. Mine has roughly 8 percent degradation in 7 years and 120k miles. The battery composition of only the p85 has shown to degrade less than even the newer 90d
Also would recommend getting the mcu2 upgrade
$24K ?? That’s crazy miles though! But this is an EV so…. Is it possible to swap out the battery pack with a new one?
Sure. Not cheap though.
How much would the new battery cost? $12k ? I heard there is a Model S that has like over or close to million miles on it. Now that is just bonkers!!!! I’m sure they went through couple of battery changes.
Probably only around 4 or less
Since OP didn’t give more info.. found the car on fb market place. There is a picture there showing battery level but it’s hazy. I’m not expert on Tesla cars so I’ll leave it to you guys to research and give feedback!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/836765307216955/
"Money is still owned on this vehicle" Does that mean it hasn't been paid off and you will have to pay off the unknown sum?
I have a 2015 that besides > AP1 you can't really tell the difference to my buddies 2017 when driving. They both ride incredibly smooth. I know the 13s have no AP and other issues reported but that's the same with any car. The 8 year warranty being gone is the only thing that would scare me away.
These car websites need to add a 'no transmission' option when listing vehicles. (N/A works as well)
If you don't need a Tesla and can do with something smaller, go for a brand new Bolt or Niro. Should cost about the same, but with much less hassle.
But if you want a large premium car... I guess it's not terrible? You gotta ask whether the engine was replaced (if not, run). I wouldn't worry about the battery - even the earliest Teslas had amazing battery health management, so it shouldn't exceed 10%, if minimal care was taken.